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  #16  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:03 AM
hokiefyd

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George, thank you. Having the benefit of being able to examine the stock closely, I agree that the grain shares a lot of similarity to Beech #2 and Beech #4 pictured above. My other stock (http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=833329) also seems to have some of the "Flecky Rayed Beech" appearance (#1), but it also certainly fits the description of "less defined fiber patterns" attributed to Birch, and seems to share some appearance with Birch #1 above (albeit a lighter shade).

I thank you all, again, for your comments. This is my first wood stock project, and I'm learning a lot about them, and also about the history of the 10/22, as I go.
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  #17  
Old 01-10-2017, 07:06 AM
hokiefyd

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Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
The wood filler looks like bondo to me. Bondo is polyester based. Aircraft stripper will soften it but it isn't going to be easy.
I wouldn't argue against it. It does have the appearance of Bondo...especially the coloring. It's a pale pink when dry and is a darker red underneath, where perhaps it didn't fully cure when originally applied. The forend, where he filled in the barrel band notch, has some small potholes in the filler, whatever it is. I wouldn't expect that with modern wood fillers, especially if applied in layers, but anything is possible, I guess.

I can sand it off just fine. I haven't worked with Bondo very much, but this stuff does sand like a chalky talc when hit with the power sander. It certainly seems to be rock-hard. Whatever it is, it's sandable, but that's about it. I can't easily chip any of it off.
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  #18  
Old 01-10-2017, 08:28 AM
Scharfschutze

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When I saw the pictures of the bare wood, it really looked to be red birch. While I feel the pictures George posted of various dyes in birch don't fairly represent what you'd see in bare wood, it's difficult to read the stock grain without the benefit of having it in hand, and web resolution doesn't allow for such subtle differences to be made out either.... couldn't see any real flecks for example. That being said, since you do have it in hand, I'd defer to George.... he certainly would know.
-Steve
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  #19  
Old 01-10-2017, 12:09 PM
hokiefyd

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharfschutze View Post
When I saw the pictures of the bare wood, it really looked to be red birch.
It sure does resemble the sample picture these guys have of red birch:

http://www.downesandreader.com/info/...wood/red-birch

Of course, Beech also seems to correlate with what I have:

http://www.wood-database.com/american-beech/

Wood-database.com's article on Yellow Birch:

http://www.wood-database.com/yellow-birch/

To the lay person, these two species seem pretty similar, and I'm sure there can be a great variance in either type with regard to grain appearance, texture, etc. I guess, in the end, it really doesn't matter what the species is, but I still appreciate your opinion on it.
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  #20  
Old 01-10-2017, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GH41 View Post
"I'd actually like to find something that will dissolve wood filler"
The wood filler looks like bondo to me. Bondo is polyester based. Aircraft stripper will soften it but it isn't going to be easy.
Methylene Chloride would probably do the job but it's some nasty stuff.

Used it to destroy polystyrene based resins. 1/2" in the bottom of a 55 gallon drum and the fumes would crumble hardened resin over night.
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  #21  
Old 01-11-2017, 08:12 AM
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Maybe a better pic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharfschutze View Post
When I saw the pictures of the bare wood, it really looked to be red birch. While I feel the pictures George posted of various dyes in birch don't fairly represent what you'd see in bare wood, it's difficult to read the stock grain without the benefit of having it in hand, and web resolution doesn't allow for such subtle differences to be made out either.... couldn't see any real flecks for example. That being said, since you do have it in hand, I'd defer to George.... he certainly would know.
-Steve
Since the stock is heavily modified and you mentioned it did not really matter which species the wood was then the follow is just for information purposes.

Maybe a better picture. This one shows virtually every red birch example you can get for every area in the tree. The pieces are uncolored.



As you can see each piece displays some type of "foggy" sapwood. That sapwood is the "tell" for Birch wood.

Never say never but the odds on getting a piece cut long enough for a rifle stock that do not have any "tells" are really small.

The only Birch species that I know of that does not have that "tell" is Apple Birch and it is a whole lot darker such as:



and I have never seen it on anything other then custom furniture. Expensive!

"Scharfschutze" I will create a single picture showing all three of the ones on this thread since the subject of Birch vs Beech comes up fairly often. Thanks for pointing out that the "colored" examples may not be the best way. The reason I showed the "colored" versions is that coloring Birch is a tough gig and any "foggy" sapwood will be very noticeable if you use stains or even in some cases dyes.

noremf(George)

TRIVIA: Depending on the width etc. of the sapwood, it is common for folks to swear that these examples of Birch stocks are Maple. Especially when they look like the 3rd one from the left.



EVEN MORE TRIVIA: This is a common "wide sapwood" piece of Birch. It was cleaned with Simple Green. The colorant and the fragrance from it did this:



PS: Many folks say that some of the CZ stocks are Birch. They are not. Those that are not Walnut are Beech. Folks also swear that the finish is Poly. That's not true either. For the wood they are either Lacquer or a Wiping Varnish designed to mimic some type of plant/vegetable oil even though they list em as "oil". I spent almost 8 weeks finding the above out.



Same for Anschutz wooden stocks by the by.

Getting way off the subject of the thread maybe so will now shut up.

Last edited by noremf; 01-11-2017 at 08:34 AM.
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  #22  
Old 01-11-2017, 11:28 AM
hokiefyd

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George and Steve, if a product of this thread is an illustrated "guide" on how to identify the wood of your stock, I think that'd be wonderful. I appreciate the effort taken to help those of us less knowledgeable about this.
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  #23  
Old 01-11-2017, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hokiefyd View Post
George and Steve, if a product of this thread is an illustrated "guide" on how to identify the wood of your stock, I think that'd be wonderful. I appreciate the effort taken to help those of us less knowledgeable about this.
It's already there, your just not looking!
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...play.php?f=275
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  #24  
Old 01-11-2017, 06:08 PM
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Where

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCP Phx View Post
It's already there, your just not looking!
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...play.php?f=275
Your shortcut is to the "Stocks" forum. That is very broad.

Where is the Guide in that forum? Can you provide a specific shortcut?

My contribution on this thread was not to identify a number of species but simply to show the differences of two....Beech and Birch but would like to review that guide.

noremf(George)

Last edited by noremf; 01-11-2017 at 06:34 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-11-2017, 06:49 PM
hokiefyd

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Perhaps here is a clue as to the age of this stock...at least relative to the other wood stock I have?

I cut the extension off that the guy added. I really do like the curve of the end of the factory stock, and intend to put a factory butt plate on...or at least fashion a factory butt plate to fit. That's when I noticed the slight difference.

The finished stock is one I bought recently (unknown vintage). It has a plastic butt plate fully "inletted" into the rear of the stock, and I think this is how "most" 10/22 factory wood stocks are. My second stock, though, the unfinished one I'm currently working, seems to have a slightly different top cut for this inlet. It also has more of a curved profile on the spine, rather than the flattened profile of the finished one. Does this indicate that it's an earlier or a later stock than my finished one?

I'm sorry I don't have better pictures of the end grain on this. It seems fairly dark, and I don't want to take a whole lot of material off, at least not yet. I need to figure out how I'm going to integrate the top of the butt plate into the stock. I don't know if I'm going to cut the factory inlet back out, or cut the tab off the top of a factory butt plate and move the upper screw from the top tab to near the top of the back plate.





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  #26  
Old 01-11-2017, 10:49 PM
ArtS
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Everyone can unload on me if they want, but I have to comment on this thread. I know I could just not respond and let it go, but I am 67 and have wasted so much time in my life on things like this that I would hope to add some reality.

I have no idea why a project like this ever gets started, and I am amazed at all the interest.

It's just an old butchered stock. You can grind, paint, strip, inlet and carve on it for weeks, and it will still just be an old butchered stock. No matter what you do it will still end up a painted, run of the mill modified stock. Spend your time and effort on something where you can add value and end up with something of significance.

I absolutely mean this in the kindest sense. I wasted two thirds of my spare time in my life on projects that had no real significance. I always used the argument (that most people do) that I could learn something and build skills from this type of thing. In the end, they generally ended up in the scrap heap. I finally realized that you can learn and build skills on a project that has an expected positive outcome just as easy as one like this. It's not a dollar thing. The most precious thing you have is your time, and most people have a limited amount of that to spend on their hobbies. Spend the time in trying to produce something of significance and not just piddling to have something to do.
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  #27  
Old 01-12-2017, 09:32 AM
hokiefyd

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ArtS, thank you for your words of...encouragement! Indeed, yours is a rather discouraging post, but I do thank you for it. I’m a type of person who, if told that what I’m doing either can’t be done or will turn out poorly anyway, endeavors even harder to make the finished product something to be grateful for and proud of. I’ll never call myself an artist, but one of my greatest enjoyments, under which everything else I enjoy doing seems to fall, is taking something that is either unloved or unsavory for one reason or another and giving it a new lease on life, a new identity, a new beauty. My hope is that you’ll be able to look at what this old butchered stock looked like in the beginning, what it looks like after I’m through with it, and think, “wow -- that combobulation of hardwood, plywood, and bondo really turned into something cool!”

It sounds like you have some regrets on time you spent doing various things earlier in your life, but I hope not. It’s sometimes hard to discern what we might have learned from one thing or another, but there’s usually something positive we can take away from everything. I appreciate that you’re suggesting that my time could be spent on projects of more significance; I suggest, in return, that what I learn from this stock may be the key that unlocks a project I undertake next month, or next year. The true value of something is sometimes not understood until much later.

Cheers!
Jason
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  #28  
Old 01-12-2017, 12:09 PM
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that's actually pretty neat that simple green did that...next birch stock I refinish for a woods rifle is going to get that done to it...sorta a cheap camo job
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  #29  
Old 01-12-2017, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hokiefyd View Post
ArtS, thank you for your words of...encouragement! Indeed, yours is a rather discouraging post, but I do thank you for it. I知 a type of person who, if told that what I知 doing either can稚 be done or will turn out poorly anyway, endeavors even harder to make the finished product something to be grateful for and proud of. I値l never call myself an artist, but one of my greatest enjoyments, under which everything else I enjoy doing seems to fall, is taking something that is either unloved or unsavory for one reason or another and giving it a new lease on life, a new identity, a new beauty. My hope is that you値l be able to look at what this old butchered stock looked like in the beginning, what it looks like after I知 through with it, and think, 努ow -- that combobulation of hardwood, plywood, and bondo really turned into something cool!

It sounds like you have some regrets on time you spent doing various things earlier in your life, but I hope not. It痴 sometimes hard to discern what we might have learned from one thing or another, but there痴 usually something positive we can take away from everything. I appreciate that you池e suggesting that my time could be spent on projects of more significance; I suggest, in return, that what I learn from this stock may be the key that unlocks a project I undertake next month, or next year. The true value of something is sometimes not understood until much later.

Cheers!
Jason
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