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Old 03-18-2017, 07:31 PM
fourbore
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Results with four Hi-Standard pistols today



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This was an interesting day because I saw both how well and how poorly HiStandards can shoot. That is beyond my H-D military post. Two guns are consistently under an inch at 25 yards and two others are not even close. I was very pleased with the two good preforming guns, because; I am doing very well to hold an inch off a rest at 25 yards with iron sights with any hand gun. All shooting was CCI std vel. No variables such as magazines of ammo. Just a straight comparison of the 4 pistols which gives me a sense of where I am at with this adventure.

I believe the 107 is what it is, but: I hope to find a way to make the 102 perform.

Photo attached, 4 typical targets. Any advise appreciated or comments on how this compares to your H-S experience. How do the Victors compare?
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  #2  
Old 03-19-2017, 01:05 AM
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hamden
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Not knowing your shooting background, I got to say that results will vary if you are not consistent each and every time you grip your gun. Also trigger quality can make a difference. And just how good is your eyesight to really see the front sight? On older HS the crown may need dressing. I have had improvement with a new precision crown. On the Ransom Rest my HS groups are many times tested at 50 yards. I can say the Eley groups are predictably the best at 1" +/- .25". Also predictable is CCI and similar ammo at 1.5" at best, 2" at worst barring need of a crown. Cheap ammo like Armscor predictably worse yet. (All this is about older HS 102-107)

Also do not take a blanket opinion on all gun-ammo combinations. The same ammo in different guns will group differently. Ammo will vary lot to lot in the same gun. Predictable trends might show, but they are not absolute.

And last, the Eley-gun combination that groups 3/4" from the Ransom at 50 yards, from my one hand offhand at 50yards scored me an iron sight 99 slowfire. That's with 9 of 10 in a group smaller than 3". That's about a 4 times bigger group offhand than from the Ransom. (And I called the 9 )
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Old 03-19-2017, 06:29 AM
fourbore
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Hamden, That is all good data, thank you for sharing. I found that when I mounted a scope on my Ruger Competition, I was able to shrink my bench rest groups from 1 inch to 1/2 inch at 25 yards. I am sure I am leaving a lot of accuracy on the table when I shoot 3/4 inch at 25 with irons. I am very pleased with that. I appreciate hearing what these guns can do from a ransom rest.

The 102 has a serious issue. The crown looks ok and the barrel seems tight. I will look again. The trigger is good. Now set at 2 pounds. I dont expect ammo will do the trick here. Magazine maybe? Or does that effect accuracy when the feeding has been flawless. Maybe not that either.

As for seeing the sights. I will be trying an eye glass gimmick merit or lyman or both.

These are the merit eye glass apertures. They look a little bulky.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/97...th-suction-cup

A range buddy showed up one day with some simple stick on eye glass apertures. Called eye-pal. I will probably order these later today. These are not sticky. Its the magic of plastic on glass.

https://www.amazon.com/EyePal-Sight-.../dp/B00DG5Y9GW

This later example did work well to focus the on sights & target at the same time.

Last edited by fourbore; 03-19-2017 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:23 PM
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Precision shooting with irons requires the front sight to be totally clear and the rear notch and target both fuzzy. That way your eye and mental focus will be easier to get on the front sight.
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Old 03-19-2017, 06:33 PM
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Iron sights are tough. I have tried this among guns of different make, and do not get consistent results. Without a Ranson Rest, I would want to shoot quite a few rounds with each gun before coming to any conclusions, although you may have already done that?

If it really mattered, I would also try it with some high end target ammo, perhaps Eley Black Box, etc. It tends to be more consistent.
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:07 PM
fourbore
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I would not say a lot of shooting- but; for me grouping under an inch with the two guns is a very good start. That is the ML and 103. I dont think those are getting any worse. That accuracy, 3/4 inch at 25, is more than fine with me.

I had the 107 for a very long time (since 1973) and it never been a great gun. Maybe the Tournaments got the short end of things or guns vary. It maybe a while before I revisit that.

So far, the 102 is a disappointment. I am going to shoot that one gun and one gun only the next chance I get. Its still a little cold around here for March. Also closely look over the crown and barrel (bore, chamber). I need to really look at it all carefully now. I have not given up by a long shot. I am just getting started.

I believe this does show, if you are shooting old guns with an unknown past, its is not going to be all sugar and spice. Maybe if someone does not enjoy working a few issues a new (or newer) gun is better. I am having a good time with all of this.

If I can shoot 3/4 inch at 25 yards with the ML and 103, I dont need a rest to work on a 102 that is consistently over 2". I am sure its a great tool if setup and used properly.

Last edited by fourbore; 03-19-2017 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourbore View Post

I believe this does show, if you are shooting old guns with an unknown past, its is not going to be all sugar and spice. Maybe if someone does not enjoy working a few issues a new (or newer) gun is better. I am having a good time with all of this.
Very good observation Nearly all my pistols have been purchased used. I love everyone of them, but some have been more "challenging" than others. I am lucky have a good friend who is an outstanding bullseye gunsmith.

I've never really focused on measuring groups at 25 yards, sounds interesting. I might try it. How many rounds is a group? 5?
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:24 AM
fourbore
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I find it a useful method to benchmark where I am at and a satisfying activity on its own. I dont know if there is a standard on number of shots. I like 5 at a time.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by fourbore View Post
I find it a useful method to benchmark where I am at and a satisfying activity on its own. I dont know if there is a standard on number of shots. I like 5 at a time.

Thx. I ask because i recently got a good deal on a Ransom Rest with numerous inserts. I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but am looking fwd to comparing accuracy of guns and ammo with as little human element as possible. I was thinking 5 shots as well, particularly since several of my guns only have 5 rd mags anyway.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:07 PM
fourbore
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I would really enjoy seeing the results. Whatever the guns are.
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Old 03-21-2017, 08:58 AM
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You are a consistent shooter, it appears to me. So I wouldn't worry about getting a Ransom Rest, unless you really want one.

But I would make sure the barrels of the poorest guns are clean. Sometimes we don't clean .22s for hundreds of rounds, and sometimes that helps accuracy to not mess with them. But if copper bullets were shot much, it could have copper fouling. At this point, you have nothing to lose by a careful cleaning with good solvents.

The second thing I'd do is buy 4-5 different types of ammo, known to be accurate. Yes the CCI SV is very good, but who knows, it may not work in those 2 guns. I've had many cases like this, where a very good ammo in one gun, works very poorly in another. Here is a type that was cheap and did very well in my Trophy.


Last edited by azshot; 03-21-2017 at 09:47 AM.
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