Metal shavings in Mark IV? - Page 2 - RimfireCentral.com Forums

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  #16  
Old 05-18-2017, 05:30 PM
Spunk_Puppy
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Guys I got the pistol back from Ruger. They said:

"CONDITION DESCRIBED MAY BE AMMUNITION RELATED. TECHNICIAN SUGGESTS CHANGING BRAND OF AMMUNITION CURRENTLY BEING USED.

TECHNICIAN PERFORMED SAFETY CHECK AND FOUND ALL PARTS TO BE WITHIN FACTORY SPECIFICATIONS AND OPERATING PER DESIGN.

TECH NOTE: DRY CYCLING DOES NOT DUPLICATE LIVE FIRE.

PISTOL WAS FUNCTION FIRED 40 ROUNDS OF CCI BLAZER 40GR LRN, WITHOUT MALFUNCTION."

So... they did nothing. Now they very well may be right, but it is curious that I'm hearing it shouldn't be shaving so much copper from these rounds. Also curious how Ruger said I shouldn't use CCI 40 grain mini mag round nose... isn't that just about the best mass produced American ammo out there?

They also replaced my safety lever. I mentioned mine didn't have a white dot on it, so I guess they thought it should have and swapped it out.

I have sort of mixed feelings, but I guess if they said it is normal, then it is normal(?). I'll get back to shooting it this weekend and I'll try several different brands to see if it shaves a bunch more junk off the bullets.

Thanks guys!
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  #17  
Old 05-18-2017, 10:40 PM
shamrock12
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As mentioned before, it is normal for Mark pistols to shave a bit of lead off while being chambered. Simply because of steep feed angle which can jam up if it does not cycle quickly enough. I don't like it but they've been that way for years and years and still is reliable today.
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  #18  
Old 05-19-2017, 06:20 AM
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Shooting the pistol, and allowing the gun to break in, may reduce the issue.

As for the CCI Mini-Mags, some .22 guns don't shoot it worth a darn. It can produce the symptoms you mention, in some guns. For that matter, any ammunition may have the same effect in a particular gun.

.22 guns have long been associated with issues with ammo. Not so long ago, the advice was to keep trying different ammo until you found what it liked, and then to go buy as much of that LOT as you could find.

Anyone who says that all rim-fire ammo should work in a particular gun is as wrong as those who were thinking that you could polish without removing metal.

I'd also add into that anyone who says that a single firearm's issue is evidence of a "mfg ERROR" in the line is similarly in error.

If the problem persists, contact Ruger again. I'd suggest putting a thousand rounds through it, keeping track of how much was shot, and what ammo was shot, then, if the problem persists, let them see it again.

My Ruger Standard, both my Mk.II, and 22/45, and my Mk.III all show a little such debris. Then again, so does my older High Standard, my S&W 22A, and my BuckMark. Especially with certain brands of .22.

Check your ammo for bullets that are loose enough to move in the case, as they will cause that shaving as well.
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  #19  
Old 05-19-2017, 09:33 AM
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I can attest to one thing for certain. I eliminated the bullet shaving with two Ruger Mark IV pistols..............and I never touched the feed ramp. Test firing afterward with CCI Mini-Mags from the exact same plastic sleeve worked just fine.

The lights in my shop did "blink" a little bit during work on the first pistol, so maybe it was a "MIRACLE"
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  #20  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spunk_Puppy View Post
Guys I got the pistol back from Ruger. They said:

"CONDITION DESCRIBED MAY BE AMMUNITION RELATED. TECHNICIAN SUGGESTS CHANGING BRAND OF AMMUNITION CURRENTLY BEING USED."
What this says is "The technician that looked at your gun isn't observant enough to find the problem". It's pretty likely a more experienced tech would have found it and got the pistol fixed for you.

Quote:
I have sort of mixed feelings, but I guess if they said it is normal, then it is normal(?). I'll get back to shooting it this weekend and I'll try several different brands to see if it shaves a bunch more junk off the bullets.
Shaving bullets may be "common", but it's NOT "normal". Ruger's design engineers didn't design the guns to shave bullets, but their process engineers didn't set the manufacturing process up to ensure that they don't.

It's not a "manufacturing error". It's a "manufacturing oversight".

Like I said in post #7 - You first need to determine what is causing the scrapes. Here's a simple test you can do. Put 2 rounds in a magazine. Put it in the pistol and cycle the first round into the chamber. Drop the mag out and eject the round from the chamber. Check both rounds for the scrape. Only one should have it. Please post the result.
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  #21  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spunk_Puppy View Post
It's copper from the outside of the bullet, the plating or whatever. Little tiny strips of it. Might be some lead in there too kind of hard to tell, I already brushed it all out.

I safely cycled some rounds through the action and sure enough they are getting scraped up when they chamber. I think my feed ramp might be too sharp or something. Someone mentioned this is normal for them to shave part of the bullet?

Do these pics work?







First two on left were cycled and left these scrapes. The one on the right was not cycled. I know it looks like reflections but they are scraped down to the lead. I appreciate the help guys.
Well, you certainly made that CLEAR enough in your post.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:51 AM
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The OP assessment is that it's the chamber and/or feedramp. Could be, but the photographic "evidence" suggests it's the bolt is doing the scraping. And the order of the scraped rounds relative to their placement in the magazine (top round, second, ...) is NOT CLEAR at all.

Maybe a pic of the bottom front face of the bolt can be added?
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  #23  
Old 05-19-2017, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by SGW Gunsmith View Post
I can attest to one thing for certain. I eliminated the bullet shaving with two Ruger Mark IV pistols..............and I never touched the feed ramp. Test firing afterward with CCI Mini-Mags from the exact same plastic sleeve worked just fine.

The lights in my shop did "blink" a little bit during work on the first pistol, so maybe it was a "MIRACLE"
Extractor?

Please tell us what you did to prevent it. Just curious, as my MarkIII does not have any issues....

DR
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  #24  
Old 05-19-2017, 01:16 PM
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There is a magazine tune up tutorial you can see on youtube. It includes just polishing some parts. There is also a thread here somewhere about making the mouth of the magazine a little wider. Hopefully it is the magazine...

I advice you do those with one magazine and try shooting the gun.

Good luck!!!
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  #25  
Old 05-19-2017, 02:14 PM
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I realize, my limited experience with the Ruger Mark pistols only goes back 45 years, but long ago during that time of involvement, it's been very plain to observe that the bolt pushes the top round in the magazine from the rear face of the rim into the chamber, and then, only uses about 1/3 of the that rims top face to get the job done.

So, NO the bolt does NOT shave lead off the bullets, and once again, if the feed ramp is scraping bullet bearing surfaces, you have issues with your magazine. It would be quite a trick if the bolt was shaving lead with the bolt face having a radius where it pushes the rounds forward and the picture that the OP published has scrape marks on the bearing surface periphery ( round bearing surface ), so physics tells us it ain't the bolt. It's the chamber mouth that's the culprit.

This stickie was put up here on RFC long before the You-tube video. Done so that folks don't need to leave here to get accurate information.........at least MOST of the time.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=507693
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  #26  
Old 05-19-2017, 06:47 PM
drinva
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SGW,

Very nice.

DR
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  #27  
Old 05-20-2017, 08:44 PM
Spunk_Puppy
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So I'm getting some "this is normal" responses and some "this is not normal" responses. Nice...
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  #28  
Old 05-20-2017, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Spunk_Puppy View Post
So I'm getting some "this is normal" responses and some "this is not normal" responses. Nice...
Try watching the video on youtube about magazine tune up, and do it on your mags...
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  #29  
Old 05-20-2017, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by xdm9mm View Post
Try watching the video on youtube about magazine tune up, and do it on your mags...
So what you're saying is that if I do this magazine "tune up" it will stop the gun from shaving bullets during chambering?

If so, how?
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  #30  
Old 05-21-2017, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Spunk_Puppy View Post
So what you're saying is that if I do this magazine "tune up" it will stop the gun from shaving bullets during chambering?

If so, how?
yes the magazines could be the problem...
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