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  #16  
Old 05-19-2017, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjsdad View Post
Those don't look like OOB fired cases. The base of the cartridge is not ballooned like it would be if the case were not fully seated in the chamber. That looks like the bolt is opening too soon and tearing the base off the case. Dirty chamber or not, that should not happen. There are two ways to overcome that problem with a 10-22. Make the bolt heavier or use a stronger hammer spring. The leverage the hammer puts on the bolt is partly responsible forhttp://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/search.php?searchid=19386049&pp=25&page=2 holding the bolt closed just a split second longer. It cannot compensate for a bolt that is not heavy enough but it can adjust the action timing slightly. Polishing the chamber and adding weight to the bolt was the correct way to resolve your issue. Another thing to look at if the problem comes back is to dull the point on your extractor a tiny bit. If the extractor is too sharp it can tear the case head off like yours did. The 10-22 extractor is only there to extract live rounds and to control the empty by holding on to it, not pull it out of the chamber.
exactly how does the bolt "open too soon and tear the head off the case"? its a blow back action - opened by the fired case pushing the bolt open. it pushes the bolt open and rides with it until the case rim hits the ejector. wouldn't polishing the chamber make things worse?? The case would have less grip on the polished chamber wall and fly out faster and easier.
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  #17  
Old 05-25-2017, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karls42 View Post
exactly how does the bolt "open too soon and tear the head off the case"? its a blow back action - opened by the fired case pushing the bolt open. it pushes the bolt open and rides with it until the case rim hits the ejector. wouldn't polishing the chamber make things worse?? The case would have less grip on the polished chamber wall and fly out faster and easier.
When you pull the trigger it sets off a chain reaction. The firing pin ignites the powder, the expanding powder expands the cartridge case and forces the bullet down the barrel. All of that forward moving energy is also trying to push the case out of the chamber. If the case has expanded enough to lock itself into the chamber like it is supposed to, there can be enough energy to bulge the case head. That small push against the bolt is enough to get it moving while the case is still stuck. If the bolt is moving and the case is not, something has to give. If the extractor is sharp enough, it will grab into the soft brass and tear the head off the case. This all happens in milliseconds but when you are dealing with explosive forces, that is all it takes.
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  #18  
Old 05-26-2017, 07:00 PM
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Please forgive the intrusion, and ignorance. But would someone be kind enough to tell me what "firing out of battery" means?
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  #19  
Old 05-26-2017, 07:14 PM
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It is my understanding that it is anything except the complete firing of the cartridge in a closed chamber. The cartridge is fully chambered, bolt is fully seated, and the ignition of the cartridge is completed before the bolt opens.

If that isn't correct hopefully someone will set things straight.

kc
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  #20  
Old 05-26-2017, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Redheeler View Post
It is my understanding that it is anything except the complete firing of the cartridge in a closed chamber. The cartridge is fully chambered, bolt is fully seated, and the ignition of the cartridge is completed before the bolt opens.

If that isn't correct hopefully someone will set things straight.

kc
Correct.
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  #21  
Old 05-26-2017, 08:48 PM
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Thanks. I'm still not sure I understand, but I'll just keep reading and trying to learn.

(Does it mean, like the bullet could fire after the bolt opens back up or something?)
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  #22  
Old 05-27-2017, 12:17 AM
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Lets see if i can make it clearer. As the bolt strips a new round off the magazine and starts to feed the round into the chamber, an obstruction of some sort, usually a dirty chamber, prevents the round and bolt from fully seating up against the barrel breech. The result is a gap between the bolt and the breech face. At this point the trigger is fully reset and able to release the hammer when pulled, which strikes the firing pin. The result is that the firing pin sets the round off, and the unsupported case blows a hole out the side in the gap between the bolt and the barrel. There are only two directions the rapidly expanding gas can readily go, out the ejection port and down into the mag well. The result of that is usually the shooter getting tattooed with burning powder and gasses, and the magazine gets blown out of the gun. Hope that made it easier to picture. It's important with a Magnum to keep it really clean, I have read recommendations of brushing the chamber every fifty rounds. I certainly don't ever intend to have that happen to me.
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  #23  
Old 05-27-2017, 07:00 AM
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could be the ammo

Could be the ammo too. I had a similar case separation with CCI 22 mags. Only I was using a single action revolver. When I sent the case and ammo to CCI they gave me a BS story that the ammo must have been stored near paint etc and the fumes contaminated the ammo. (It was stored in a gun safe). SO CCI is off my list of trusted products
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Old 05-27-2017, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomack View Post
Please forgive the intrusion, and ignorance. But would someone be kind enough to tell me what "firing out of battery" means?
The cartridge is not completely inside the chamber when the firing pin hits.

Consider that the brass case will NOT contain the force of the round going off. We depend on the support provided by the chamber to keep the brass case from blowing apart. If the brass case is not completely inside the chamber it is "out of battery" and if it goes off while part of the case is outside of the chamber the case is very likely to split open.

The how and why is explained by 'ol shooter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol shooter View Post
Lets see if i can make it clearer. As the bolt strips a new round off the magazine and starts to feed the round into the chamber, an obstruction of some sort, usually a dirty chamber, prevents the round and bolt from fully seating up against the barrel breech. The result is a gap between the bolt and the breech face. At this point the trigger is fully reset and able to release the hammer when pulled, which strikes the firing pin. The result is that the firing pin sets the round off, and the unsupported case blows a hole out the side in the gap between the bolt and the barrel. There are only two directions the rapidly expanding gas can readily go, out the ejection port and down into the mag well. The result of that is usually the shooter getting tattooed with burning powder and gasses, and the magazine gets blown out of the gun. Hope that made it easier to picture. It's important with a Magnum to keep it really clean, I have read recommendations of brushing the chamber every fifty rounds. I certainly don't ever intend to have that happen to me.
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  #25  
Old 05-27-2017, 10:05 AM
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Thanks for the explanations. Very clear and now I understand. Back to your regularly scheduled channel...
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  #26  
Old 05-27-2017, 09:44 PM
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OOB

An out-of-battery ignition (AKA Kaboom) is as described by Sophia and 'ol shooter. What they left out is that it can produce bits of shrapnel from the case, the magazine, and your beautiful Tuck-painted stock. Don't ask how I know all that!
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  #27  
Old 05-27-2017, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob View Post
An out-of-battery ignition (AKA Kaboom) is as described by Sophia and 'ol shooter. What they left out is that it can produce bits of shrapnel from the case, the magazine, and your beautiful Tuck-painted stock. Don't ask how I know all that!
Sounds like a .17 went off on you.
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  #28  
Old Yesterday, 07:07 PM
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Yup

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol shooter View Post
Sounds like a .17 went off on you.
10/22M converted to .17 HMR with a Clark Custom barrel, some heavier springs, and Tuck candy rootbeer t'hole stock with ghost flames. My self-imposed guideline was/is to pull a Boresnake through it 2-3 times every 50 rds. We were shooting SD p dogs in a very target-rich environment and I went right on by 50 rds. Somewhere between 50 and 100 I had a KABOOM. Magazine blown out in pieces and the stock seriously damaged. Bullet lodged about halfway down the barrel and what was left of the case stuck in the chamber. I have no doubt it was an out-of-battery ignition caused by debris in the chamber preventing it from going fully into battery. Still have the gun and it's still shooting very well but it's now in a plug-ugly-by-comparison Hogue OM stock.

I believe such events are much more likely with bottle-neck cartridges. The cleaning guideline is still in force on the above gun as well as two HM2 conversions, one a Charger.
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