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  #31  
Old 04-20-2017, 08:32 PM
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When I was doing some rimfire benchrest, I had two Calfee rifles, both built on single shot 40-X actions. Bill is a rimfire genius, and a very interesting guy with whom to talk. He is seldom without an opinion! He lives in a small town in southern IN, near my wife's hometown, and I spent an hour or so talking with him when picking up one of the rifles he built for me. He can certainly meet your goal of having a rifle limited only by you and the ammo. And therein lies the subject of my cautionary remark. I found that testing rimfire ammo became an endless and frustrating endeavor. As soon as I found a specific lot that shot well, it would soon be gone, and then you start over, shooting probably 10:1, testing to actual practice. The loading of true precision rimfire ammo is a difficult undertaking, something that only a few European loaders have pursued. And despite their best efforts, the ammo is less than perfect. In centerfire BR, the shooter can dedicate unlimited time to putting together extremely precision ammo. Commercial producers simply cannot do that, and the little .22 is probably the most demanding of all to make.
I gave it up and found precision air rifle to be a better choice (for me). I still dearly love shooting .22 rimfire rifles, but it's all plinking and informal target shooting. My current favorite "shooters" are a 1710 HB Classic, and a Kidd Supergrade (a squirrel killing machine). Good luck, and if you decide to chase the perfect rimfire BR rifle, bring your wallet, and be prepared for a lot of ammo testing.
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  #32  
Old 04-20-2017, 09:42 PM
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I can see how lot testing can be frustrating. If I recall correctly, in one of his writings, Steve B was mentioning that high level competitors usually take the good lots directly from the factory. Usually good lots donít even make it to the USA.
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  #33  
Old 04-21-2017, 03:59 AM
kseatm
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Ben,

You've been given some great advice in this thread! And both sides of the coin were explored in detail.

Common thread, to me, is that you really do need to understand what you want to accomplish long term with this purchase. Trouble is, that's kind of hard for most people!

Personally, to borrow the analogy of stairs vs elevator, I've been chugging up those stairs from the start. And the entire way, kept telling myself I wasn't interested in getting to the top floor. Guess I was fooling myself

Would have saved a bundle if I'd taken the time to sort out what I wanted to accomplish beforehand. But it's been a learning experience, and fun too boot!

Your choices are both great options. And I do understand the allure of both owning a high end sporter or an older factory match grade rifle. You really can't go wrong with either.

The smart thing would be to just buy a purpose built gun for BR. But sometimes, it's fun to climb the steps.

Whatever direction you decide on, I know that you're going to enjoy the journey. To me, that's the most important aspect.

Good luck

Kenny
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  #34  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:43 AM
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Kenny, you are exactly right. And the thread has been great to read -- a real exchange of ideas and approaches. RFC at its best!

Lurking behind my desire to make a choice about this is that I don't have unlimited funds for the project. When the question a couple of years ago was "which CZ" or ":22/45 or MkIII" I could jokingly say my solution was "get both" and have it not be too far off the truth in terms of my approach, at least over a little time. But when you start to get into custom rifle territory, the air gets a little thin for me, if you know what I mean. After reading the thoughtful responses in the above thread and thinking about the risks associated with buying an older bench gun sight unseen, I think the right approach for me here is going to be getting the 1710 HB, and putting off the purchase of a purpose built rifle until I have the wind-reading skills to make the most of it.

The alternative, realistically, would be to sell off enough stuff and simplify somewhat. I have actually given that more thought than you might think. This is the path to the "get both" answer I was joking about. The limitation there is all on me, of course. Get rid of a CZ 455 that I finally got shooting pretty well? Well, I could do, but there is something about working out the problems with a piece of gear that tightens the "ownership grip," if you know what I mean. Get rid of a CZ 452 that just shot, really, really well from Day 1 without touching a thing? Man, that one made me feel like a lottery winner the first time I took it out to the range. These are not real constraints of course. They are just the box you get in when you get attached to "stuff." As I said, that is all on me. And, you know, a man has to know his limitations. It is more true to form for me to get the new gear, discover over time that the old gear is not getting used as much, and downsizing at that time, rather than when the up-front costs come in. Still, if you all see me list a totally random assortment of stuff in the Trading Post, you'll know that I couldn't navigate my way out of the either/or paper bag.

So: don't want to get too philosophical on you all early on a Friday. Sincere thanks to those who responded with their "take" on this above. It has been very helpful.

[BTW, I think I am a "stairs" guy myself, even though it means spending more over time. There is a certain appeal to being like Neo in "The Matrix" hooked up to that machine that makes him say after a couple of seconds, "Whoa. I know Kung Fu." But the thing is, the process of learning this is stages has been a blast (literally and figuratively). Like when I took my dog to a creek for a swim the first time when she was a pup and she looked at me like, "where have you been hiding this great wet stuff up 'till now?"]
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  #35  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:16 AM
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There is one cost effective option that I do not recall seeing in this great thread. Buy the 1710 sporter with the HB and get a BR stock made for it. This way you can shoot it as a sporter or a BR gun. It won't be a full Bore max competition BR piece but it will shoot well enough for most for you to be competitive in most club shoots while you climb the stairs a little further. If you decide to move up to a full BR rig later the stock is easy to resell and you will get almost all of your money back.
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  #36  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:18 AM
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In the end, this is our hobby, and its purpose is providing pure enjoyment, whether it's climbing stairs or starting at the top. Regrets and what ifs will often taint the enjoyment, however, but it seems you're thoughtful enough to make the right choice for you. The 1710 HB will always retain its value, so little risk in that route, anyway.

Good luck,

TBR
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  #37  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:35 AM
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TBR! Thans for the kind words. If I had your machining skills, or Kenny's woodworking skills, I would just buy some steel ingots and a maple stump and keep hammering away at all of it until I had a bespoke work of art. In my case, power tools are a good way to ruin perfectly good materials more quickly . . . so it's off to retail-land for me. Still there is plenty of good fun to be had, even if one doesn't have a master craftsman's skill.
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  #38  
Old 04-21-2017, 09:47 AM
kseatm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flangster View Post
Kenny, you are exactly right. And the thread has been great to read -- a real exchange of ideas and approaches. RFC at its best!

Lurking behind my desire to make a choice about this is that I don't have unlimited funds for the project. When the question a couple of years ago was "which CZ" or ":22/45 or MkIII" I could jokingly say my solution was "get both" and have it not be too far off the truth in terms of my approach, at least over a little time. But when you start to get into custom rifle territory, the air gets a little thin for me, if you know what I mean. After reading the thoughtful responses in the above thread and thinking about the risks associated with buying an older bench gun sight unseen, I think the right approach for me here is going to be getting the 1710 HB, and putting off the purchase of a purpose built rifle until I have the wind-reading skills to make the most of it.

The alternative, realistically, would be to sell off enough stuff and simplify somewhat. I have actually given that more thought than you might think. This is the path to the "get both" answer I was joking about. The limitation there is all on me, of course. Get rid of a CZ 455 that I finally got shooting pretty well? Well, I could do, but there is something about working out the problems with a piece of gear that tightens the "ownership grip," if you know what I mean. Get rid of a CZ 452 that just shot, really, really well from Day 1 without touching a thing? Man, that one made me feel like a lottery winner the first time I took it out to the range. These are not real constraints of course. They are just the box you get in when you get attached to "stuff." As I said, that is all on me. And, you know, a man has to know his limitations. It is more true to form for me to get the new gear, discover over time that the old gear is not getting used as much, and downsizing at that time, rather than when the up-front costs come in. Still, if you all see me list a totally random assortment of stuff in the Trading Post, you'll know that I couldn't navigate my way out of the either/or paper bag.

So: don't want to get too philosophical on you all early on a Friday. Sincere thanks to those who responded with their "take" on this above. It has been very helpful.

[BTW, I think I am a "stairs" guy myself, even though it means spending more over time. There is a certain appeal to being like Neo in "The Matrix" hooked up to that machine that makes him say after a couple of seconds, "Whoa. I know Kung Fu." But the thing is, the process of learning this is stages has been a blast (literally and figuratively). Like when I took my dog to a creek for a swim the first time when she was a pup and she looked at me like, "where have you been hiding this great wet stuff up 'till now?"]
Your reasoning and rationale does point towards the 1710HB. You've given this a bit of thought! Some might think it's the product of a great education....I'd say you've also got some "holler" in your blood

Good luck Ben. You will be fine. The 1710 is a great rifle and you're sure to enjoy it. I'm a huge fan of that model myself. Just that the '12 was more in line with my purposes at the time. Someday though...

Loved your Neo reference. But, with everyone helping you decide on which way to continue this journey, I'm more inclined to mimic Delmar in "Oh Brother where art thou" when Ulyesses and Pete were arguing over who was the leader. "Okay, I'm with you fellas" seems like a good response in this thread.

Take care and good luck.

Kenny
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  #39  
Old 04-21-2017, 05:23 PM
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Just want to add: I have had experience with a few Anschutz and liked some better and some less. My 1710 DHB is one I really love. It's darn accurate on the bench ( even though it's a sporter ) and it is sooooo good looking.

Gilbert
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  #40  
Old 04-22-2017, 01:50 AM
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I bought a 1710 D HB a couple of years ago because I wanted to shoot small groups from the bench but I don't compete, it's just for me. At the time that I bought the rifle, I didn't have interest in learning to dope the wind or use tuners so it seemed like the best option for me - the other options seemed too serious. Currently, I still don't have the time or interest to get more serious about BR but if my interest in BR grows, I'll worry about upgrading my equipment then and know that I can get a good chunk of my investment back if I upgrade. I'll take the stairs.
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  #41  
Old 04-22-2017, 09:00 PM
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1710 HB Hybrid GRS

I have decided to take the escalator. Anschutz Custom Shop pilard, bedded, tuned match trigger and bolt and elongated flat stock front and back for better rest shooting. Never thought I would spend this much on a rifle but passion for accuracy is growing. Figure if I decide to get more vested a higher end barrel might do the trick.
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  #42  
Old 04-25-2017, 02:38 PM
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Hi Flangster,
Did you ever decide what to do? The more I think about this, the more I think, given your original parameters, maybe you should look for a used 2013 BR-50 rifle (the square action 54 Anschutz). I know I recommended the 1710 HB, but for the same amount of money as a new 1710, or a lot less than for an ANA custom 1710 someone mentioned, I'm sure you could find an already-depreciated 2013...maybe in the $1600-$1700 range. I know they are out there, because I bought and sold one for about that this last year:


I also did a quicky review back then:
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...161&highlight=

Let us know what you do...since we all need to know our well articulated suggestions are of worth

TBR
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  #43  
Old 04-25-2017, 03:28 PM
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Today I called Champion's Shooters Supply and bought a 1710 HB with a two stage trigger. Should be here next week.

Ultimately, the rationale was to go with a new rifle from a trusted source and spend some time improving my wind-reading skills. A cousin who was a used airplane broker once told me, "you can always buy, but you can't always sell." I won't deny that that 2013 is a sweet-looking rig, though. In a year or two, maybe?

[I should say that i want two things that tug in different directions -- repeatable accuracy, and an elegant sporter!]
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  #44  
Old 04-25-2017, 04:10 PM
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A very interesting thread here! And Kenny has added his usual wisdom (borne of much experience ). As with several of you here, I don't compete, but like tiny groups and lean to sporter rifles over BR based solely on aesthetics. BR rifles are purpose-built and just look clumsy to me while a nice sporter looks graceful from any angle. If you want tiny groups but are not enamored of the BR look, I think the 1710D HB is a great way to go. Put a really good scope on it and proceed.

My 1710D HB with a Nightforce 15-55X Competition scope below. (I'm sorry, Kenny, it does have a stainless barrel. )

Doug

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  #45  
Old 04-25-2017, 05:05 PM
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I thought that either way you wouldn't go wrong. I know you'll be very pleased with the 1710, especially with the two stage trigger. I have the single stage and that's the only thing I'd change with mine.
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