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Old 04-20-2017, 07:12 AM
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Out of battery firing



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So.... I've always wanted a 10/22 mag but know they have problems. When I came across the Select Fire build, I thought I'd give it a run. After a few bobbles it is now complete and functioning -- kinda. My first two rounds through it appear to be out of battery fires. The first tore up the magazine but, lucky me, didn't set off any of the rounds in it. The second was loaded and no magazine inserted. Both of them separated at the base of the case with the base still in the bolt.

Select Fire sends two different springs with the reciever kit, the first shot used the lighter of the springs and the second used the heavier one. I have cycled a couple of magazines loaded with ammo manually through it and all appears well. The ammo feeds well and the bolt fully seats up to the end of the barrel. I have only tried CCI ammunition.

My question is do I need yet a heavier spring for the bolt or am I missing something and have another problem?
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:13 AM
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How did it fire out of battery is the question. Did you pull the trigger and fire it or did the hammer follow the bolt down, or neither? Does the barrel pass the plop test? Does it go into battery without a round? You said you had the second one with the mag out. It's a big no-no to stick one in the chamber and drop the bolt on a live round, these are controlled feed actions, not made for the extractor to simply snap over the rim like some bolt guns. Lots of variables as you can see. Without the gun in front of me it's hard to troubleshoot. First see if it goes fully into battery without a round in the mag. What goofs did you have in machining? Those could directly relate to your issues.
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Old 04-20-2017, 01:09 PM
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'ol shooter-- I had a round chambered and when I pulled the trigger it appeared to be out of battery. Yes, I also realize that you don't stick on in the chamber and drop the bolt. I had inserted the magazine, chambered a round, and removed the magazine. Yes, it also goes into battery with and without a round. Guess I don't know what the "plop test" is for the barrel.

Anyway, I called up Select Fire and talked to Phil,about it. Two things came out, bad ammo and/or rough chamber. I used CCI, Hornady, and Aguila ammo so not bad ammo. He suggested taking so rouge and polishing the chamber as it sounded like the cases were sticking in it and the bolt was pulling th end off of it.

So....... I polished the chamber a bit and so far haven't had a problem after 25 rounds. Looking at the cases that I fired, a few were bulged on the end so I might do a little more polishing.

Who would have figured.
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Old 04-20-2017, 05:26 PM
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what barrel are you using?
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:07 PM
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Glad some polishing helped. The "plop" test is you clean the chamber, then stand the rifle vertically and see if a loaded round free falls all the way into the chamber. It's a valid test with all semi-auto guns of all calibers. If you reload centerfire, it's a quick and dirty way to see if your loaded ammo will chamber, without using a chamber gage.
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Old 04-20-2017, 06:26 PM
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Thanks shooter. After I posted that and got to thinking (brain finally, slowly engaged) that it might be something along that line.

crackedcornish -- Select Fire had a blued bull barrel that I picked up at the same time I bought the receiver kit.

I think that I need a little more polish time on it and it will be ready for the range. I've been using an oversized cotton swab (made for 22 cal) rouge and my Dremel.
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:49 PM
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Maybe Select Fire should replace that barrel if you are not comfortable with having to fix it yourself. It would be the right thing for them to do.
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Old 04-21-2017, 06:39 PM
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Well, ended up doing a little more polishing on the chamber and put a heavier on the bolt, that seems to have taken care of my problem. The fired brass now looks "normal" no bulged ends and eject cleanly. I have run four different brands through it and all performed correctly.

Now to get down to sighting it in and enjoy shooting it.
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Old 04-21-2017, 09:45 PM
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It's important on the Magnum to keep that chamber clean, like every fifty rounds clean. The best way I know is a bent chamber brush and a spray cleaner, followed by a swab. Gunsmither makes a nifty little tool that youy could duplicate with a little work.


http://gunsmithertools.com/
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Old 04-22-2017, 06:21 AM
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Cool. I kinda wondered if that wouldn't be a little more of a problem with a magnum than it is with the lr. Thanks for the info.

I have shot 22 lr for decades but am new to the magnum. Thanks for your help and insight shooter

kc
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Old 04-22-2017, 11:01 AM
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Dirty chamber

Any blow-back operated gun is susceptible (to varying degrees) to OOB ignitions. All such guns leave some ignition debris in the chamber. The 10/22 can/does/will fire slightly out-of-battery. .17 cal conversion are even more susceptible due to the bottle-neck cartridge but straight-wall rounds are not exempt, obviously. I have heard of .22lr version firing OOB but not as often.

That said, a new gun, firing the round for which it was made, should not have this issue right out of the box and should not require the owner to "fix" the problem. When the manufacturer suggests that you perform some task in order to make their product operate correctly, they should compensate you somehow.
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Old 04-22-2017, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DRob View Post
That said, a new gun, firing the round for which it was made, should not have this issue right out of the box and should not require the owner to "fix" the problem. When the manufacturer suggests that you perform some task in order to make their product operate correctly, they should compensate you somehow.
I agree completely, and that is the best way to get a loyal customer. I have read of customer difficulties with them in the past, guess they haven't gotten the message yet, or don't care.
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Old 05-18-2017, 11:03 PM
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Those don't look like OOB fired cases. The base of the cartridge is not ballooned like it would be if the case were not fully seated in the chamber. That looks like the bolt is opening too soon and tearing the base off the case. Dirty chamber or not, that should not happen. There are two ways to overcome that problem with a 10-22. Make the bolt heavier or use a stronger hammer spring. The leverage the hammer puts on the bolt is partly responsible for holding the bolt closed just a split second longer. It cannot compensate for a bolt that is not heavy enough but it can adjust the action timing slightly. Polishing the chamber and adding weight to the bolt was the correct way to resolve your issue. Another thing to look at if the problem comes back is to dull the point on your extractor a tiny bit. If the extractor is too sharp it can tear the case head off like yours did. The 10-22 extractor is only there to extract live rounds and to control the empty by holding on to it, not pull it out of the chamber.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by cjsdad View Post
Those don't look like OOB fired cases. The base of the cartridge is not ballooned like it would be if the case were not fully seated in the chamber. That looks like the bolt is opening too soon and tearing the base off the case. Dirty chamber or not, that should not happen. There are two ways to overcome that problem with a 10-22. Make the bolt heavier or use a stronger hammer spring. The leverage the hammer puts on the bolt is partly responsible for holding the bolt closed just a split second longer. It cannot compensate for a bolt that is not heavy enough but it can adjust the action timing slightly. Polishing the chamber and adding weight to the bolt was the correct way to resolve your issue. Another thing to look at if the problem comes back is to dull the point on your extractor a tiny bit. If the extractor is too sharp it can tear the case head off like yours did. The 10-22 extractor is only there to extract live rounds and to control the empty by holding on to it, not pull it out of the chamber.
I'm not sure I agree with your analysis. The heavy alloy bolt used in the 10/22 magnum is engineered by the factory to be the proper weight. Adding weight to a bolt that is properly engineered for the magnum cartridge will disrupt the entire dynamics and make it more difficult to diagnose and fix the real problem. You are correct by noting that the extractor's main function is not to pull the casing from the chamber, but to keep it aligned against the bolt.

Last edited by Air-cooled; 05-26-2017 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 05-19-2017, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redheeler View Post
'ol shooter-- I had a round chambered and when I pulled the trigger it appeared to be out of battery. Yes, I also realize that you don't stick on in the chamber and drop the bolt. I had inserted the magazine, chambered a round, and removed the magazine.
If the magazine was not in the gun when this happened, that was most likely the cause. The magazine supports the bolt.
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