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  #31  
Old 03-20-2017, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pathman124 View Post
.

But my question remains, should there be a noticeable space between the Gblock and the barrel tenon?
Like post #2?
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums...d.php?t=438345
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  #32  
Old 03-20-2017, 09:24 AM
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Rawhp, it's difficult to determine from that pic if the G block is sitting right against the tenon, in my application it is not. If I only tighten the two main bolts, the barrel can still be easily twisted. It's not until I tighten the set screw that the barrel gets tight, but then the set screw is all that's holding the barrel in place, which is unacceptable.
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  #33  
Old 03-20-2017, 03:35 PM
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If the gap Is between the relevant horizontal flats of the barrel and the Vblock, then yes. There should be a gap. That gap would be between the top of the Vblock and the bottom of the barrel flat. The Vblock is intended to hold the barrel in the receiver and does so with pressure applied axially. It is not intended to hold the barrel up. Quite often the issue of barrel "droop" is caused by over tightening the Retainer screws on the Vblock, thereby literally pulling the barrel downward. Of course the barrel droop can also be a function of a loose fit between the barrel tang and the receiver barrel hole.

If the gap is between the Vblock angle faces and the angled protrusion on the barrel then that is not correct. In that case I'd send the whole shebang to Kidd and let them scope it out. There may be a "stack up" issue pertaining to the V cutout location on the barrel and the Vblock position on the receiver.

Last edited by azguy; 03-20-2017 at 03:44 PM.
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  #34  
Old 03-20-2017, 05:39 PM
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Thanks for the reply and evaluation AZ. I need to clarify however, the issue of a "space" is regarding a G-block, not a V block. If I use the original Vblock, the barrel is held right, but I have the issue of the rounds jamming upon entering the chamber.
If I use the G block, which was put into use in an attempt to alleviate that jamming issue, then the barrel is loose even after I tighten the block bolts, and does not tighten until the small set screw is tightened.
That can not be the way this G block was designed to function, that a tiny set screw is holding the barrel tight in the receiver.
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  #35  
Old 03-20-2017, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pathman124 View Post
Thanks for the reply and evaluation AZ. I need to clarify however, the issue of a "space" is regarding a G-block, not a V block. If I use the original Vblock, the barrel is held right, but I have the issue of the rounds jamming upon entering the chamber.
If I use the G block, which was put into use in an attempt to alleviate that jamming issue, then the barrel is loose even after I tighten the block bolts, and does not tighten until the small set screw is tightened.
That can not be the way this G block was designed to function, that a tiny set screw is holding the barrel tight in the receiver.
I believe the G block is supposed to push on a small flat that you put on the protrusion of the barrel. There has to be contact between the barrel cut out and the G block or there is nothing holding the barrel in the receiver. The set screw is to only allow you to put upward pressure on the barrel and eliminate any droop. That's the theory anyway. Again, the G block does need to contact the tip of the cutout protrusion to load the barrel axially and keep it in place.

Just exactly how loose is the barrel in the receiver?
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  #36  
Old 03-20-2017, 08:08 PM
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Thanks for the detailed explanation AZ, but that's not whats happening, and the Lilja barrel already has a flat protrusion from the factory, I didn't modify it myself.

The barrel is so loose (without any blocks mounted of course) that if I tip the receiver the barrel will fall right out. If I tighten the bolts on the G block (but not the set screw) it can not fall out, but I'm still able to rotate the barrel side to side maybe 1/8".
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  #37  
Old 03-20-2017, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pathman124 View Post
Thanks for the detailed explanation AZ, but that's not whats happening, and the Lilja barrel already has a flat protrusion from the factory, I didn't modify it myself.

The barrel is so loose (without any blocks mounted of course) that if I tip the receiver the barrel will fall right out. If I tighten the bolts on the G block (but not the set screw) it can not fall out, but I'm still able to rotate the barrel side to side maybe 1/8".
Do you know what the OD of the barrel tang is, exactly? Really curious.
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  #38  
Old 03-21-2017, 05:54 AM
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.6870 exactly, which is within specs according to Lilja.
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  #39  
Old 03-21-2017, 09:27 AM
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Entirely possible that the receiver is not correct. Be the first Kidd I've heard of with an issue but it's always possible to get a bad one from anyone. I'd send to Kidd and let them check it out. Do you have a way to measure (mic) the receiver bore?
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  #40  
Old 03-21-2017, 11:44 AM
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Why not just champher the mouth of the chamber as suggested several posts back? Why would you expect lead to pass over a sharp corner and NOT catch on it?

Break the corner of the chamber mouth 0.010" and be done with it. What possible negative effect would it have? I check the edge of the chamber for sharp edges on every build I do. If it is sharp, I break the edge.

Look at the inside corner of the rim on your ammo. Is it a sharp corner? NO, it is not. Break the edge of the chamber to match and your issue will go away.
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  #41  
Old 03-21-2017, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pathman124 View Post
Thanks for the detailed explanation AZ, but that's not whats happening, and the Lilja barrel already has a flat protrusion from the factory, I didn't modify it myself.

The barrel is so loose (without any blocks mounted of course) that if I tip the receiver the barrel will fall right out. If I tighten the bolts on the G block (but not the set screw) it can not fall out, but I'm still able to rotate the barrel side to side maybe 1/8".
The "G" block is designed for a Ruger factory barrel in mind, and requires that the sharp edge of the "Bird Mouth" like cut be filed back flat, so the G Block can push against it to retain the barrel against the receiver.

Some aftermarket barrels have the sharp edge removed, and may not work with a G block as it was intended to be used. In this case, it is recommended to use a small piece of brass or steel rod to fit up into the "birds mouth" cut. On a factory barrel, a small cut off drill bit shank works fine, usually about a 5/64" bit. On an aftermarket barrel, try different drill sizes until you find one that fits like in this photo. This allows the block to push against the rod, thus pushing back on the barrel.

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  #42  
Old 03-21-2017, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Why not just champher the mouth of the chamber as suggested several posts back? Why would you expect lead to pass over a sharp corner and NOT catch on it?
Because when I pay $300 for a barrel I don't expect to have to finish the machining work, that's why!

AZ, no i don't have a way to measure the receiver, but i will
Most likely ship it back to KIDD and have them check it out.

Gsmither, thanks for the detailed explanation, again, with the money I'm spending on these components, I don't feel having to use a $2 drill bit to hold it all together is the way to go. I appreciate all the input, and I will let You all Know what the final solution is, but it may take some time to sort out.
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  #43  
Old 03-21-2017, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pathman124 View Post
Because when I pay $300 for a barrel I don't expect to have to finish the machining work, that's why!

AZ, no i don't have a way to measure the receiver, but i will
Most likely ship it back to KIDD and have them check it out.

Gsmither, thanks for the detailed explanation, again, with the money I'm spending on these components, I don't feel having to use a $2 drill bit to hold it all together is the way to go. I appreciate all the input, and I will let You all Know what the final solution is, but it may take some time to sort out.
Good luck guy. Wish I could've been more help. Be real interesting to find out what the final determination is. Kidd is a great bunch of folks. They'll do you right.
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  #44  
Old 03-21-2017, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pathman124 View Post
.6870 exactly, which is within specs according to Lilja.
What are you using to do your measurements? I always found .6875" to be the tenon measurement with that .0005" to make a "BIG" difference!
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  #45  
Old 03-21-2017, 06:09 PM
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Thanks AZ, will post results.

I used a digital caliper. Mr. Lilja himself said that is within specs, but of course that's assuming my calipers are that precise.
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